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- HOTNESS UNHOT
eBay with ABC Vacuum Warehouse has the BluWorld NF-F3FIO Nu-Flame Fiero Free Standing Floor Ethanol Fireplace for $230 with free shipping. Regularly priced around $499 online. Made with tempered glass, has 1.5L capacity, and burns clean liquid nu-flame bio-ethanol fuel.
$230
Retail: $500
Unvented fireplace = Asking for trouble
This rates right up there with sky lanterns... Good work Ben Bargains...
It all depends on the fuel, amount, efficiency in burning, etc. I don't run the fan over my gas stove in the kitchen and don't have any problems. Most people burn candles without special venting. Candles themselves can be a fire hazard, but the venting isn't the issue.
Gee, I'd rather just stand over a trashcan fire with the street people than put a can of sterno in my fireplace.
A candle is not a fireplace either... Personally, I wouldn't want to burn Sterno in my house. But don't take it from me, here's are a couple of sources discussing the idea of ventless fireplaces.
http://www.nachi.org/ventless-fireplace-inspection.htm
http://www.epinions.com/content_3647578244?sb=1
Note that ventless fireplaces like this thing are prohibited by law in Canada, many states (MA and CA) and local jurisdictions. But, by all means, if you feel there is little danger, enjoy using these things. I'm sure your whole family will enjoy the fireplace and breathing the byproducts of the combustion of ethanol. It might even help to cover up those pesky house odors. I would try to make sure the kids and the pets don't get too close to the open flame on this thing though. You will never forget the time you had to roll little Sally on the rug to extinguish her burning nightie...
^ They are speculating about large, regular use fireplaces on a scale used to heat. This is just a little novelty piece. I wouldn't recommend continually using it trying to heat a room but for the effect of a fire occasionally it shouldn't be a problem.
Well if D*ave say it OK, then it's safe.
Thanks D*ave
But if it's legal to sell in California is another question. Isn't Ben's Bargain and FleaBay located within the People's Republic of California?
CALIFORNIA CODES
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 19881-19882
19881. (a) No person shall sell, or offer for sale, any new or used
unvented heater that is designed to be used inside any dwelling
house or unit, with the exception of an electric heater, or
decorative gas logs for use in a vented fireplace.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), natural-gas-fueled unvented
decorative gas logs and fireplaces may be sold if the Department of
Housing and Community Development and the State Department of Health
Services approve of their use, and all of the following are
satisfied:
(1) The Department of Housing and Community Development and the
State Department of Health Services consider and develop recommended
standards for their use. The cost of developing these standards may
not exceed one hundred forty-five thousand dollars ($145,000).
(2) Natural-gas-fueled unvented decorative gas logs and fireplaces
meet the standards developed in accordance with paragraph (1) by the
Department of Housing and Community Development and the State
Department of Health Services.
(3) The California Building Standards Commission adopts the
standards developed in accordance with paragraph (1) and pursuant to
Section 18930.
(4) Natural-gas-fueled unvented decorative gas logs and fireplaces
are listed by an agency approved by the Department of Housing and
Community Development.
(c) Installation of natural-gas-fueled unvented decorative gas
logs and fireplaces sold under standards developed pursuant to
subdivision (b) shall be in accordance with the California Building
Standards Code.
19882. Any violation of any provision of this chapter shall be a
misdemeanor.
^ Does eBay's location factor in? Seller lists location as TX.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=10606+Bluff+Bend+Dr+Austin,+TX+78753&hl=en&ll=30.368703,-97.676357&spn=0.001442,0.00118&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&hnear=10606+Bluff+Bend+Dr,+Austin,+Texas+78753&t=h&z=20&iwloc=A
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=10606+Bluff+Bend+Dr+Austin,+TX+78753&hl=en&ll=30.368703,-97.676357&spn=0.001442,0.00118&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&hnear=10606+Bluff+Bend+Dr,+Austin,+Texas+78753&t=h&z=20&iwloc=A
eBay factors because they are third party that is allowing illegal sales to some locations.
If the seller is selling to someone located in California or to another restrictive jurisdiction that has a similar law, they're breaking the law. For instance, a retailer could not legally sell fireworks to someone in California even if the seller is located in another state which allow retail sales of fireworks. Same applies to other things like tobacco and alcohol or vehicles not equipped with CA emission equipment...
After a moment searching online it appears as though the CA ban pertains to ventless gas fireplaces but not ethanol. Also, here are places in CA that sell them:
http://www.thefireplaceelement.com/bio-ethanol-fireplaces.html
http://www.allfountains.com/bio_ethanol_fireplaces.html
Not sure Dave D*ave. I suppose it has to do with where HCD draws the line on what is considered an unvented heater and something that is not. I'd have to look into this further...
Not only is this indoor combustion a bad idea for obvious reasons....there are a few less obvious, ecological reasons to avoid liquid nu-flame bio-ethanol. The primary reason lies within "embodied energy". In short, the amount of energy that went into the TOTAL production of corn based ethanol is greater than the amount of heat energy produced via burning (oxidation). Citizens of the US should be cognizant of the wholly STUPID political rationale behind subsidized production of corn based ethanol. This product is a product for ignorant city folk who drank the political kool-aid and think they're saving the planet by using a touted "clean" fuel.
Bob, I used to feel that way about ethanol subsidies but in this day and age that is probably giving us a higher return on the money than most government programs, plus I doubt that the consumption rate of ethanol by a small fireplace is enough to even be measurable relative to the amount of ethanol used in E10 gas blends and manufacturing.
In other words it's not really going to make a difference one way or the other. Regarding indoor combustion, haven't people been using gas stoves for over half a century?
As long as there is hunger on this planet, it's immoral to grow corn for fuel.
Heard back from an inquiry I made to an ethanol fireplace manufacturer. It's not illegal in CA but you should still check for restrictions based on local (city, etc) ordinances.
Growing corn for fuel doesn't change the global food issue, that's political. If we just give away food then that devalues the crop at market and the same corrupt officials that let their people starve end up selling the donations for their own personal profit.